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Self Cathertrization Means You Don’t Need A Toilet Aid Finds Mandatory Reconsideration

August 16, 2016

More information on this story from yesterday. Readers, take note, this is scary stuff.

What prompted my “when is a toilet aid not an aid” comment was result of my mandatory reconsideration. I am currently 2pts short of pip  low rate care award. They refuse to accept that intermittant self cathertrization (ISC) involves the use of a toilet aid. Without using a catheter i can not urinate at all. Although if i am unable to perform ISC when required i do loose control of my bladder & have accidents. ISC also increases risk of UTI’s of which i am already very susceptible so must only be performed in hygenic conditions, therefore it is 1 of reasons i rarely leave the house. Due to other health conditions the most relevant being degenerative disc diease & other spinal issues & a recent spinal fracture, I am not always able to successfully perform ISC but as my 18yr old son is my main carer i would never ask his assistance with something so intimate. DWP decision maker i spoke to yesterday says that because i use the catheters myself they do not impact on day to day living & therefore do not constitute a toilet aid! 

kirsty fraser

13 Comments leave one →
  1. August 16, 2016 12:44 pm

    This is awful. Catheters are awful to have , they are intrusive, and they are definitely a toilet aid, would have thought this lady qualifies for high rate care with all the issues she has! That is why DWP must use doctors as assessors in these cases not some person with no medical knowledge! This is awful so good luck at tribunal

    • peter mcclements permalink
      August 16, 2016 6:38 pm

      hopefuly she will win higher rate tribunal

  2. August 16, 2016 1:05 pm

    Reblogged this on Benefit tales.

  3. Sarah permalink
    August 16, 2016 4:25 pm

    It is important to have a look at the PIP handbooks on the gov.ukwebsite, including A DWP guidance document for providers carrying out assessments for Personal Independence Payment. Urinary catheters are an appliance. You can not carry out the medical treatment you require without one. At a minimum you should meet descriptor B in the toilet section. If you struggle to carry it out safely reliably and repeatedily as advised you may score a higher descriptor. UTI may be an indication that you can not carry it out safely, do you also have problems with your bowels and cannot clean yourself adequately etc?
    Keep a dairy of everytime you experience difficulty including the time it takes.

    Good luck may be the HCP would like to try catheterising every time they need a pee,

    • August 16, 2016 6:56 pm

      when i had my pip assesment i was asked about wiping my bottom as i have arthritis in my hands elbows and shoulders and knees feet / so my shoulders cannot rotate as to wipe my bottom ,,i get my wife to to it ,,asked why i had no handle to pull me off the toliet ,,i have no pulling strength in arms to pull my self up.also i use a electric seat for in out of bath my wife has to wash my shoulders back torso and feet toes ,i need a gadget to open bottles cans jars etc to open packets /milk tops is a nightmare,i got 6 points ,2 short for the 8 points for £55 a week pip…but i won my esa tribunal from only 6 points to 15 on mobility..pip tribunal any time now ,,dont give up go to tribunal

      • August 16, 2016 8:07 pm

        I find it shocking that they ask so many details about toilet use. Would THEY like to answer such questions?!

      • Justin Greenwood permalink
        August 16, 2016 8:32 pm

        I agree that the nature of asking questions like that is impersonal, it also makes me wonder about there training, i think any professional that asked questions like that would soon be faced with a complaint let alone someone who does not really know you, is not your gp or anything connected to your careteam and in 45 minutes of assessment really expects a answer, it is high time this whole system was looked at again for suitabilty and that includes the decision making process as well as the complaints process as it is quite clear that the only thing that is correct is that this process is not fit for practice and to quote Professor Harrington, it is the best there is, i like to know what the worst is, putting them in charge of the nhs next, the 5 week specialist gp course that far outranks nine years of training, don’t suggest that they may even think it will work!!Q!

  4. Justin Greenwood permalink
    August 16, 2016 4:52 pm

    this is serious to consider a complaint against the wca as he is putting you at risk of carrying out a procedure that could be unsafe due to hygeine at least and for the decision maker as they are evidently plain stupid and perhaps the use of a toilet aid to flush some sense into them might be a mandatory consideration for themselves.

    i would complain against both of them as they are unfit for anything

  5. August 17, 2016 3:34 am

    It’s degrading having to disclose toilet needs to strangers and discuss them especially to those who are not medical professionals who have no idea on the subject , if they did they would understand this ladies plight ! It’s the lack of thought some questions are really personal if not all , they should take a look at medical records before hand if people are incontenent who would feel comfortable talking to stranger about this without feeling demoralised ect it’s an utter disgrace to be put to this degree of embarrassment for any one who’s self worth would be low as it is without having tell a complete stranger you toilet needs .
    Where’s the basic decency for people and regard for there dignity in all of this ?

    • Sarah permalink
      August 17, 2016 7:23 am

      Unfortunately the only way to score points on a PIP or WCA is to tell them what it is really like to live with either bladder or bowel dysfunction or both, making sure that you tell them about the bad days, otherwise they make (wrong) assumptions such as Self catheterisation is easy, and that bowel leakage can easily be dealt with by wearing pads. It is vital that you put down sufficent information on the form so that they do not make false assumptions. Looking at the DWP guidance for those who carry out assessments, available online, make sure that you have given the information so they have no excuse for putting down the wrong descriptor. Most of us try to cope and hide the reality of the problem to the outside world. Maybe the DWP and the assessors know that most people will be too embarassed to speak out when they are not given the correct descriptor in an assessment or to fill in the form correctly. Speak out we must, they are bodily functions that have to be managed. Remember that mobility issues getting to the loo, or need to wash and change clothes will only normally gain points in their respective sections, but putting it down in the toilet section as well should help get the message across.

      • Justin Greenwood permalink
        August 17, 2016 9:41 am

        totally agree and also beginning to wonder whether they are breaking the code of respect and dignity which is drummed into anyone working in the nhs, as they say these guys have all had sova training and are supposedly thought to have come from a medical background, it does make me wonder what happens when you become a wca assessor, do they have a operation to put a chip that replaces humanity, you only have to look at the amount of tribunals and complaints to know that if anything should be classed as fit or unfit to work, it is the whole assessment process that is unfit to work and this proves it, will tory boy do anything about it, nope they still run around with their IDS Stupid Grin thinking it is a good idea!!!!

  6. August 19, 2016 5:36 pm

    Reblogged this on sdbast.


  1. An Update On ‘When Is A Toilet Aid Not A Toilet Aid?’ | Same Difference

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